Posted on16 June 2011.
When I posted that Article from the man from Tonga to Hitches he was asking a no spin question to Hitchens, what does he and Atheism have to offer Tongan’s who have been maming each other eating each other and have no regard for thier neighbor or life?
Hitchens had no answer he just gave a response on the culture of cannabalism, I am asking you do you have a solution for the Tonga man or not?
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In it’s true concept, yes; atheism offers nothing other than a disbelief in God. But by it’s NATURE, the answer is no; athiesm will offer many good and beneficial things. For example, atheism offers logic,which religions truly lack.
Also, look at Vishal, will ya? You might learn a lot.
Asked and answered…..you just didn’t read my answer apparently
I’m even more upset that atheism doesn’t tell me how to fix my car.
Atheism is just a disbelief in God, it doesnt mean to define the goodness of people who are atheist. We are still people who want the best for the planet just like anyone else.
Having a religion doesnt define if your a good person or not.
And if you think so, your judgmental.
Let’s play a game for a minute.
Assume belief for this game, even for those who lack belief in a deity.
So, was God the answer to this Tonga problem, or was Jesus Christ the answer?
Which God?
Who’s on first?
Solution?…..Yeah, tell them to quit eating each other….Or….buttt out of their life and culture. Christians have a nasty habit of forcing conversion on other cultures.
The solution for the Tonga man, would be education.
Education is the solution for almost anything. Sadly enough, only educated people understand that.
I guess…but who does offer solutions? Agnostics? No. Believers? Solutions…to what?
No. Are all Christians former nazis because the Pope was one? One man does not speak for all. Pretty simple concept, but I bet you think you made some great point.
Meh, are we going to see 500 versions of this same question?
no because it is just a culture of cannablism. No different than other crazy cultures. Atheism has nothing offer because its just a disbelief in a god. No christian is going to go over than and magically convince them cannablism is wrong
You apparently didn’t get to my answer yet.
The man’s question was flawed. Tonga wasn’t helped by Christianity; it was helped by Christians. There is a major difference. If we’re going to credit Christianity for all the good things Christians do, then we also ought to credit atheism for the good things atheists do.
So, here is what atheism offers:
Free medical care without requiring conversion (Doctors without borders)
Free education programs (including sexual education programs), condoms, AIDS treatments, vaccines, and mosquito nets without requiring conversions (Bill & Melinda Gates Foundations)
In case you haven’t noticed, my point is that atheism offers the exact same thing as Christianity, except without requiring conversions.
EDIT:
I would also argue against D’Souza’s claim that Hitchens missed the point of the original question. Hitchens possibly failed to explain his point clearly, but was getting at something similar to what I’m saying. He was saying (or should have been saying) that Christianity wasn’t the driving force behind the decrease in cannibalism; the driving force was the education received by the Tongans.
It would appear so.
A system of law…
It’s no different then a religious system of laws, which is the "solution" belief in God would offer, i.e. "Don’t harm they neighbor."
First off, what EXACTLY is the question? Second, what the hell is YOUR brilliant solution?
You think a bunch of p*ssed off cannibals are going to listen to reason?
What do I have to offer a Tongan?
Why don’t you read Vishal’s answer again my dear.
I would have offered him scientific proof on why cannibalism isn’t a good idea. Like creutzfeldt jakob disease…not a good thing if you’re a cannibal.
Yes, the definition of atheism is lack of belief in a deity…
Your point is? Morality doesn’t come from religion, but culture. And socialization.
If a culture can be changed, it can be changed, regardless of the methodology. Religion has nothing to offer that non-religion cannot also offer insofar as humanity is concerned. Do I have a solution? I do not know enough about the culture to even begin to say whether or not I have a solution.
life’s only purpose is simply to extend the existence of the species in question.
No they cannot offer solutions on a spiritual level except to tell you to follow your path or understand why they can’t believe in your path.
But there is more to life than spiritual paths.
Atheists are able to offer constructive ideas to solve social and political problems in every other way imaginable.
To be honest I’ve not really seen many solutions being put forward by the religions of the world, except "love thy neighbour" and "kill thy neighbour" depending on their mood.
In the above case, atheist’s would look at this situation like anyone else and say – well if you stop hurting each other then you might actually be able to get something done. Basically all religion says with the love thy neighbour and similar.
I am not an atheist, but I think it is absurd to say that because someone does or does not believe in God (Christian or otherwise) that this is somehow relevant to whether we can offer a solution for a cannibal society. Obviously that problem has more to do with education and morality than religion. We, as an alleged Christian nation are a very violent people, so what solution do we have? We (our born-again president)have just invaded a foreign country to boost our oil interests. Is that a good moral lesson for the Tongans?
Why does life NEED a solution?! This is crazy, people should stop looking for the things they want to find. Life is to be enjoyed, not to be enslaved in a vilifying, portentous cult.
I thought that atheism never claimed to have any solutions. it is like that "whatever makes you happy dude" type of thing.
Exactly.
BTW, religion provides ZERO solutions too. At least someone relying on 21st century technology and logic will make better decisions than someone relying on 2000 year old books of fiction.
Cannibalism and atheism are unrelated. That’s like trying to draw comparisons between Nazi’s and people with mustaches. Trust me, people aren’t eating each other due to too much skeptical inquiry. It unrelated. That’s like comparing the Westboro Church(godhatesfags.com people) to ALL Christians. It wouldn’t be accurate or fair.
If your god is so powerful that he could stop warfare and cannibalism in Tonga, he should get off his buttt and get busy. While he’s at it, he could end the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, end the AIDS crisis in Africa, finish the clean-up left by Hurricane Katrina, a disaster I suppose you could fairly argue that he caused in the first place, and make sure that the Balkans don’t blow up into new hostilities because Kosovo just declared its independence. What? He can’t do that? He’s just trying to test us? If that’s the case, he is either impotent or has a really fragile personality that requires people to kowtow to and placate him, sort of like a physically abusive husband or father. As for the Tongans, they will need to work out their issues themselves. If they want help, they can get it by asking the rest of the world.
Atheism in and of itself does not offer any solutions. It is entirely up to the individual.
For further clarification read Vishal’s answer.
What do you mean ‘that’s it’?
Do you have a dictionary?
Of course that’s it.
Atheism is a lack of belief in a god or gods. It does not dictate morals, and it does not demand anything. It does not state that a god is possible or impossible. People state that, but atheism does not.
I suggest he move away from where he is. If the people there do not have the morals he believes in, he can either appeal to reason, to leave.
Telling them that you have the correct god is not going to help either.
And the only difference between their culture and any christian one I have seen, is the eating of the dead. And that is cultural. A dead body holds no significance until you apply it to it. It is DEAD meat.
THAT tonga man obviously was a believer.
what about the tongans who find themselves incapable of believing in a creator, or in the bible, or in a half-god-son-of-a-virgin? maybe they would like to know that their thoughts are valid, that they aren’t "evil", and that they can be a good human without the threat of an eternal hell.
i was judged by christians, even as a kid, because i couldn’t swallow what they were force fed. people shouldn’t be made to feel that way.
"The man from Tonga asked Hitchens, "So what do you have to offer us?" Hitchens was taken aback, and responded with a learned disquisition on cannibalism in various cultures."
What you fail to understand is that Tongan culture should be respected for what it is and not patronized as "lower" because they have different cultural values. Atheism, like Christianity, has nothing to offer the Tongans – unless elimination of their culture is the goal. Humanity, on the other hand, can offer aide and promote education (reading, writing, arithmetic). The Tongan people can then help themselves and preserve their culture.
Atheism isn’t a set of beliefs and cultural rituals to be imposed on people. It doesn’t have a goal. My personal goal is to become more self-aware and that requires the shedding of arbitrary beliefs, not the adopting of them.
Being an Atheist does not mean you have the answers to the worlds problems. It means that you do not believe in god.
Hitchens book describes the problems with various organized religions, it’s not a self help book.
I don’t as an atheist, since atheism means just lack of belief in a deity.
But I do have a moral and ethical code, and reason and education and other tons of things that don’t belong strictly to the definition of atheist.
If religion puts together God, spirituality, and behavioural rules it doesn’t mean it has to be the same for everything else
Its interesting….. I was prepared for any Atheist to ask a question or set out an idea that might really rattle my faith when I started here at R&S.
I’ve yet to hear/read any compelling argument that makes me re-evalute my faith, or even leave my faith.